Anonymous20th July 2021 at 6:05 pm #555539
I’m afraid what I have learnt from my years spending the winter in the Costa Blanca South the cost of electricity in Spain is the same, or close to the costs in France. What one has to understand, to get a kilowatt of heat costs money, there is no really cheap electrical appliance than can offer heat at a significantly lower cost. Heat always comes at a price, as does air conditioning.
So how will it heat your house, how many rooms does it need to heat? And how will it get to all those rooms? Our pellet burner is good for most rooms upstairs as the heat rises of course but we still have a large electric radiator on the wall in the kitchen which is on the same level and another on the mezzanine above the kitchen. I am interested.
You can’t rely on the French. Having only today had the survey during which they made an appointment to install my heat pump next Wednesday, I’ve just had a phone call (6:40pm) to cancel it.
They asked if they could come tomorrow morning instead.
What on Earth has happened to the usual ‘quinze jours’ minimum for service of any kind.
OK so I will try to answer your questions. What do I get for 18,000€?
Well 12.000€ from the government scheme for a start so the question for me is what do I get for my 6000€
I pellet burner of 22Kw output fully installed and guaranteed for 5 years.
A hopper which holds 290Kg of pellets automatically feeding the burner.
a programmer and thermostatic controller.
A ballon of I believe 225 litres.
I do at the moment only use my current fuel system for heating water, I have not used my central heating for over 10 years because it is so expensive. The research I have done leads me to believe I can afford to run my central heating on the new system which I estimate will use approximately one 15 Kg bag of pellets per day in the winter, much less in the summer. A bag of pellets ranges from 3.20-4.50€ depending on the quantity you buy. I am expecting to save around 2€ per day in the winter with less reliance on my petrole heater and woodburner so overall it would seem a good investment. I would imagine it would also make my house more attractive should I wish to sell in the future.
I am told the installation will take two days with modifications needed to the plumbing and chimney to meet current regulations. It will be installed in September.
That is all I know at the moment, I will update if there are any developments and once installed I will be able to give a more accurate figure for the cost of running the system.
Let me tell you what I got for my 1€. The system is up and running. Within no time one of my radiators was getting hot, just to test it. Needless to say that was then turned off. Water in the ballon is already hot enough for a shower, which is a priority before I go to bed. That’s on the lowest possible setting. They didn’t even ask for the 1€.
Sounds good AK, my system takes about 30 minutes to get up and running from cold.
I was advised to cut the system in stormy weather to help limit the effects of electronic problems, just like disconnecting the Orange box or satellite dish etc. I have always done this with CH boilers so nothing new there for me.
Peut-on avoir une pompe à chaleur à 1 € en 2021 ?
En cumulant différentes aides comme le programme Habiter Mieux Agilité de l’ANAH (Agence nationale de l’habitat), la prime Coup de Pouce attribuée dans le cadre du dispositif des CEE (Certificats d’économie d’énergie), le CITE (Crédit d’impôt pour la transition énergétique), il a été possible d’installer une pompe à chaleur pour 1 €.
Aujourd’hui, ce n’est plus possible. Dans les meilleures conditions, le reste à charge est de 10 % du montant HT des travaux
Quelles sont les aides pour acheter une pompe à chaleur ?
Différentes aides viennent alléger la facture pour l’installation d’une PAC :
Ma Prime Rénov’ : depuis 2020, elle regroupe le programme Habiter Mieux Agilité de l’ANAH et le CITE. C’est une prime forfaitaire dont le montant dépend du niveau de revenus.
Le CEE (Certificat d’économie d’énergie) : distribué par les fournisseurs d’énergie, il est accessible à tous mais son montant dépend du niveau de revenus.
Habiter Mieux Sérénité : cette aide gérée par ANAH finance les travaux de rénovation énergétique globale d’un logement lorsqu’ils permettent un gain énergétique d’au moins 35 %. Le montant est proportionnel au coût des travaux et dépend du niveau de revenus.
La TVA à taux réduit : si ce n’est pas une aide au sens propre, la TVA au taux réduit de 5.5 % allège d’autant la facture finale ! Pour prétendre au taux le logement doit être achevé depuis au moins 2 ans.
[quote quote=555622]Peut-on avoir une pompe à chaleur à 1 € en 2021 ? En cumulant différentes aides comme le programme Habiter Mieux Agilité de l’ANAH (Agence nationale de l’habitat), la prime Coup de Pouce attribuée dans le cadre du dispositif des CEE (Certificats d’économie d’énergie), le CITE (Crédit d’impôt pour la transition énergétique), il a été possible d’installer une pompe à chaleur pour 1 €. Aujourd’hui, ce n’est plus possible. Dans les meilleures conditions, le reste à charge est de 10 % du montant HT des travaux Quelles sont les aides pour acheter une pompe à chaleur ? Différentes aides viennent alléger la facture pour l’installation d’une PAC : Ma Prime Rénov’ : depuis 2020, elle regroupe le programme Habiter Mieux Agilité de l’ANAH et le CITE. C’est une prime forfaitaire dont le montant dépend du niveau de revenus. Le CEE (Certificat d’économie d’énergie) : distribué par les fournisseurs d’énergie, il est accessible à tous mais son montant dépend du niveau de revenus. Habiter Mieux Sérénité : cette aide gérée par ANAH finance les travaux de rénovation énergétique globale d’un logement lorsqu’ils permettent un gain énergétique d’au moins 35 %. Le montant est proportionnel au coût des travaux et dépend du niveau de revenus. La TVA à taux réduit : si ce n’est pas une aide au sens propre, la TVA au taux réduit de 5.5 % allège d’autant la facture finale ! Pour prétendre au taux le logement doit être achevé depuis au moins 2 ans. Source :Here[/quote]
I think everything changed recently. When I had my garage roof done they told me that my application, or my acceptance of the quote, I forget which, had gone in on the last day to get the full bonus. A lucky coincidence for me as I only applied in an idle moment when urged to do so by the Leroy Merlin website.Anonymous22nd July 2021 at 12:23 pm #555632
It’s not a competition folks! Unless you are a heating expert/engineer/scientist I don’t really know how you can judge other’s choice of heating systems based on a few words they have written on a forum. Prices vary greatly for pellet burners so how can John’s be written off as too costly without knowing any facts about it?
I wish you the best of luck and many pennies saved with both your new systems, JohnP and Abi
I should add that a lot of the cost is the installation. My oil fired system is installed in a boiler room which is built on the back of house and probably adapted from the old outside toilet. This is not suitable for a pellet burner without a lot of insulating etc. because it is damp in the winter. My workshop which was originally a bedroom backs onto the boiler room so they are going to put the pellet burner in there (I am clearing a space for this). The pipework will then go through the wall and the ballon etc will be connected to the existing system in the boiler room which once the old boiler and fuel tank have been removed can also be used to store the sealed bags of pellets. Quite a lot of work involving electrics, plumbing, flushing the old system and getting everything working again after 10+ years and the boiler flue has to be adapted using an old chimney in my workshop which will have to be extended to meet new regulations, so I can understand why it is expensive. If I had to pay the full cost it would be out of the question. Each property will offer different challenges to the engineers so I would guess they don’t always make a killing on every installation.
Thank you, I will do that. I am just reading up on pellets, softwood/hardwood, moisture content, quality, there is a lot to consider. I have several possibilities locally for pellets, I shall be comparing prices and I shall probably buy a couple of bags from each supplier and see how they burn and last. It isn’t always just about price although that is obviously a consideration.
Wow , yes John P , now I understand why the costs are so high , it is a major rebuild .Bon courage .
We are investigating the procedures and costs of installing “Panneaux solaires” , if we can produce enough electricity to run our pumps , then we are pretty much self sufficient as far as heating and hot water goes.
[quote quote=555612]Let me tell you what I got for my 1€. The system is up and running. Within no time one of my radiators was getting hot, just to test it. Needless to say that was then turned off. Water in the ballon is already hot enough for a shower, which is a priority before I go to bed. That’s on the lowest possible setting. They didn’t even ask for the 1€.[/quote]
I am glad you are happy with your heat pump Abi and I hope it delivers for you. An air source heat pump does just that, it takes air from outside and transfers it to heating your water much like a fridge in reverse. On a hot summers day they work beautifully and efficiently but in the winter months when temperatures drop to near freezing there is precious little heat to extract and they can struggle to find enough to keep the system working efficiently in all but a very well insulated home. For that reason I opted for the Pellet system which I believe in my situation is the best of the two systems for my older property.
I have just been informed that my new system will be installed in 2 weeks time.
I have today been to buy a new bathroom radiator to replace the rusty relic that is hanging there at the moment. I can swap them when the system is drained during the changeover. I have also cleared a corner of my workshop to make room for the installation. I am watching videos on youtube to try and understand the workings of the system, the new technology of the control of the system and which pellets give the best heat per kilo.
I am actually quite inspired to learn how I can make this new technology work in my favour.
If anyone else has a pellet burner system I would be happy to compare notes when mine is up and running, it could be beneficial to to others.
I thought an update might be appreciated.
My initial installation date was 9/10 August. I received a phone call the week before to say there was a problem with delivery of the ballon (water tank) and eventually I was given a date of 21/22 September. The boiler and tank arrived on pallets and dumped in my living room 3rd September. Yesterday (21st September) I waited for the engineers to arrive……………….16.30 a knock on the door. Yes they have arrived to look at the situation and after a quick appraisal they tell me they will arrive 08.00 tomorrow.
Sure enough they turn up, and at this point I would like to say they were really friendly and pleasant, one had a quite good grasp of English which made life easier.
These guys were here to install the exhaust flue using an old chimney in my workshop. Two hours later they inform me that the chimney is totally blocked. At some point it has been blocked with rubble and cement. So they begin the labourious task of dismantling the chimney and unblocking it. Meanwhile another three guys turn up to install the boiler but this isn’t possible without the flue in place so they leave.
It’s 15.00 and the flue is finally installed. They can’t do anymore so they also leave. I ask what happens now and I am assured their boss will email or phone me with an update. It is now 22.30 so I guess I am not going to hear anything till tomorrow.
So do I stay in tomorrow in hope that someone will turn up? I am not knocking the workforce, they have been great, but the managers don’t seem to have heard of customer relations. I still have my old system in place so I am not without hot water but I just want to know when to expect them next….Are they coming back tomorrow?…Friday?…. next week?…It is so frustrating and all for the sake of a text or phone call/email
Watch this space
I can’t believe this. Today I have left a message on an answerphone with one person and sent an email to another regarding my boiler installation, neither have replied. This is an 18,000€ contract. Probably peanuts to them but a fortune to me.
I am pretty p*ssed off because I have also received news that a friend and former neighbour of mine has passed away and just to top it off the French impot with their new system have been taxing me every month according to my pension and are going to take the annual amount on Monday from my bank account doubling my payment.
Sometimes I wonder what I am doing here, it just doesn’t get any easier does it
Im not sure were all the stuff previous post get the actual facts from but as we have 3 houses that have air source heat installed the most recent being commisioned today itself you maybe interested to know it is not as simple as just replacing your heat souce, its a huge change and doesnt work if you dont change everything the down side is that at best your radiators can only get up to 55 deg, anyone that tells you different is lying, now the cost of running such a system well its not cheap believe me, in fact it is bloody well expensive probably 25 to 30% more than a good quality oil system, to be honest they are pretty crap if you are getting one installed for a Eruo then I am not suprised but even free its not worth it, ours are top of the range have been a nightmare and they are so so ineficient, however accolrding to the buffoons we are helping save the planet,
We have spent several thousand having ours installed by proper and registered artisans we wont be having any more air source heat installed, having said that all the 3 systems we have all have one thing in common, they are all crap
When we moved into this house two winters ago we realised even before we even bought it that something would have to be done about the heating. As it was a maison secondaire beforehand and hadn’t been used much over winter, the electric radiators hadn’t been updated for well over thirty years. The only other heating was a large open fire which was lovely to look at but pretty useless when it came to heating 170 odd sq metres of house.
After making initial inquiries over air sourced pumps, we were inundated with requests from companies promising everything under the sun for precious little money. We agreed to installing a demonstrator (free) and set up the standing order with EDF for 140 Euros a month. Over the first winter you could hear this thing chewing up electricity, but the main problem was that the house wasn’t heated properly. We don’t like an overheated house (19-20 degrees is fine) so as the pump wasn’t doing what it was supposed to do, we had it taken out and sat down and had a long hard think about the coming winter.
In the September following we received a supplementary bill from EDF for 1500 Euros so clearly our 140 Euros a month had been wildly underestimated. Luckily, over the summer we had fitted a large poile a bois made by a company called Oliger which not only heated the whole house but looked extremely attractive in a very large old fireplace.
Before winter arrived, I changed every light bulb in the house and over the course of the winter, the old electric water tank packed up and had to be replaced. So, in the end we probably spent around 6000 Euros replacing everything that used energy.
As September this year approached, we wondered what the effect of all this would have on our annual bill. When it arrived, it had halved and we received a rebate of 350 Euros. But the main thing that mattered was that during a long cold winter the house was warm and we were comfortable. As you get older, this becomes increasingly important.
Yes – I’ve had to cart 15 steres of wood into the house over the winter but the lesson we learnt is that unless you have or are prepared to pay for a fully insulated house (which our’s isn’t) and which is fundamentally open plan, then wood is the only thing that will heat it.
Just to give another side to the story.
My pompe à chaleur was installed just over two years ago. It cost 11500€ but I was allowed a 3500€ grant from EDF. I had to upgrade my EDF Linky contract as the old meter wouldn’t take the extra load. This meant I had to now pay a monthly bill of 142.27€.
We have a wood burner which is used occasionally though 90% of the time the heating is via the pompe à chaleur.
Since then the system has worked without hitch with hot water and heating four 148m2. I have just looked at my last 12 EDF bills on my account which shows 11 payments of 142.27€ and a rebate of 41.56€ in April. This gives a total EDF bill for all electricity consumption of 1523.41€ for the calendar year.
Seems pretty good to me.
All good points Pete – But I’d wager that your house is far better insulated than ours. Unfortunately the cost of fully insulating a near four hundred year old “longere” would be prohibitive.
I’m not saying that “pompes” aren’t effective – it’s just that they have to have ideal conditions to be an economic proposition.
Hi JJ, I would never have considered such a system if my property wasn’t well insulated. It’s a great system but only for the right type of property.
This topic seems to be giving a negative idea of pompe à chaleurs when really the proprietor should be asking ….
’is this the correct system for my place or am I wasting my time and money ?’
From my research into different systems when I decided to update my fuel boiler, it quickly became clear that a pompe a chaleur is only practical in a very well insulated houses otherwise it is inefficient and expensive to run. My new pellet boiler is still sitting on two pallets in my living room where it was dumped a month ago. I am dealing with (or trying to) a large French company who it would seem have taken on more than they can cope with and their customer relations are very poor to say the least. I suppose they will get round to actually installing my boiler at some point but it is looking increasingly unlikely it will be by the end of September as promised. When this does become a reality I will as I said, give some feedback as to running costs etc.
Your experience Pete seems to back up what has been said here. It is good that it works for you and you are happy with it.
We had an air to water heat pump that I bought in from China in our old house and it was brilliant. It was an 8kw unit that cost me about 800 EU in 2013 landed. We had an old stone house and I dug up the flooring in the main room -about 46m2, put down a dpm, 10cm thick polystyrene insulation, about 500 metres of 16mm plastic pipe and a 9 M3 concrete pour. Four separate bays of heating and it worked really well.
I am not saying it was particularly cheap to run but it warmed up the entire house and kept going even when there was snow on the ground.
I would do the same again if I could face digging up all the floors.
Not quite sure what you mean by an air to air system. PJ has an air pump system which he is happy with but his home is well insulated which is the critical factor, Abi K had one fitted recently but doesn’t seem to be around to comment at the moment.
I have now been assured that my pellet burner installation will be completed Mon/Tue next week, apparently they have been waiting for a part so fingers crossed.
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