pompe à chaleur 1€

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  • 6th June 2021 at 1:11 pm #552334

    [quote quote=552327]So get off your high horse.[/quote]

    You first , my dear . :rose:

    Conservation has been my life Abi ,

    If you have seen what is left after the “forestiers” pass  then you know how much waste wood there was on 9 hectares.

    Mols are very useful creatures , their passages drain and renew the soil.

    I only cut and burn ( and used to sell ) fallen and dead trees. We had a tempest here in the Winter of 2000 that destroyed a lot of our woodland , we lost 80% of our hardwood and 99% of the douglas that had been planted on the “Friches”.

    Wood that is rotting gives off it’s stored co2 into the atmosphere the same as if it is burnt but slower, if the wood is cleared and the sunlight let in , new trees grow which store more carbon , so it is a cycle and therefore renewable .

    I did read what you wrote . wood burner,oil burner and gas bottle :whistle:

    6th June 2021 at 3:34 pm #552344

    This is a good thread in that it involves us all and our appreciation of the future needs of the environment around us. It’s a shame that, once again, two contributors seem to be more intent on throwing brickbats at each other when their aims and objectives are very similar but looking at it from a different angle.

    Abi is seriously looking at a way of providing herself with better heating whilst maintaining her personal political views. What, I think, is becoming abundantly clear is that she may well have huge difficulty doing this without spending large sums of money. The rather sad fact of the matter is that she is between a rock and a hard place. She either moves to a property which is more environmentally friendly but at the same time loses the environment in which she lives and clearly loves or she loosens her environmental issues a little in the search for a bit of comfort and warmth. It’s a balance between ethics and practicality.

    This is where Deboer comes in. He’s obviously done very good stuff with the woodland that he bought and in clearing it has produced a product that has a value. Surely, if there is a surplus to his own requirements it makes perfect sense to sell the surplus if only to recoup a little of the capital he spent buying the land. If he had kept all of it for his own use, over time, a good deal of it would have rotted. The compromise he is making is that he is still burning wood which is not the political direction he is being encouraged to take.

    And this is where practicality comes in. If you are prepared to sacrifice a more pleasant lifestyle for your political views, then that is you prerogative. Nobody is forcing you to do it at the moment – but they might well do in the future.

    There will be many of us who will be forced to make our way through increasing ecological legislation and come through it without bankrupting ourselves. This will be a huge challenge and one that, I feel, Governments should take more on their shoulders if they are to convince the rest of us of the seriousness of the issue.

    Anonymous
    6th June 2021 at 5:27 pm #552349

    John James is spot on.

    A few years ago we decided to downsize. We’d bought our pretty stone longere and associated outbuildings in 2002, had it renovated etc, had some good, enjoyable years in it but to be honest we were rattling about in it, it cost a lot to heat even though rooms were closed off in the winter.

    We looked around for more modern, smaller houses but could find nothing we liked so ended up going down the road of a new pre-fabricated single storey, fully insulated eco house. A stressful journey at times but the best decision we ever made (apart from moving to France) but I am also aware that were lucky to be able to do this.

    it’s ideal for our old age and the fact I have a long term illness. I see so many people here who end up being trapped in homes that are no longer suitable for their changing needs, lots of land to maintain etc.

    We have a pellet stove that heats the whole house for the cost of a few bags of pellets a week and costs a fraction of the heating costs of our previous home. A pompe à chaleur system heats the hot water which also has very cheap running costs.

    We don’t miss woodburners and all the work involved at all! Love that we get up in the morning and the house is warm as the stove has been programmed to come on before we wake up!

     

    6th June 2021 at 8:23 pm #552362

    We have recently had a new pellet burner installed that is also vented through to a second room; clean, efficient and easy to use. There are currently grants available through Ma Prime Renov which is linked to income (claiming is a bit of a faff and shows the French love of bureacracy off to a tee!). You do have to pay up front and then claim your grant but perhaps it might be worth investigating, Abi.

    6th June 2021 at 9:01 pm #552367

    [quote quote=552344]The compromise he is making is that he is still burning wood which is not the political direction he is being encouraged to take.[/quote]

    Why would we stop burning wood ?

    Wood has been used for hundreds of years to heat houses , oil/gas /electric have not . So why is there a problem with burning wood ? If you cut wood from your own woodland then there is no tax , not like oil,gas and electricity , that is the problem .

    It is not those burning wood to cook and heat that are causing climate change but they are being used as a scapegoat !

    I remember when I lived in Holland when they discovered the biggest onshore gas field in Europe , everyone in Holland was connected , then they banned wood burners and the tax was slowly increased on the gas !

    6th June 2021 at 11:02 pm #552395

    Some people never give up. They are always right, even when they are wrong, and twist words, even their own, to suit themselves. I must confess that I am confused as to how much land he actually has.

    Can I get back to the subject of the topic. I said:

    [quote quote=552246]It would be nice to hear from anyone who already has the system installed. I would also like to have more info about maintenance or recurring costs.[/quote]

    Pete James said it was worth doing and works well. I’d like a bit more info than that. Some people have mentioned electricity for example. What impact does it have on bills.

    And what about this: Motorcyclist asked “can I retain my oil fired system and wood burner, or , does the regulations insist on there removal”. In particular, do I have to ditch the oil in my tank, and how would I go about it.

    6th June 2021 at 11:26 pm #552398

    [quote quote=552395]Some people never give up. They are always right, even when they are wrong, and twist words, even their own, to suit themselves. I must confess that I am confused as to how much land he actually has. Can I get back to the subject of the topic. I said:

    It would be nice to hear from anyone who already has the system installed. I would also like to have more info about maintenance or recurring costs.

    Pete James said it was worth doing and works well. I’d like a bit more info than that. Some people have mentioned electricity for example. What impact does it have on bills. And what about this: Motorcyclist asked “can I retain my oil fired system and wood burner, or , does the regulations insist on there removal”. In particular, do I have to ditch the oil in my tank, and how would I go about it.[/quote]

    According to my Enedis account I pay 140€ per month in electricity bills with everything included.

    You would need to take out any existing boilers to qualify for the grants.

    7th June 2021 at 7:54 am #552404

    [quote quote=552395]Some people never give up. They are always right, even when they are wrong, and twist words, even their own, to suit themselves. I must confess that I am confused as to how much land he actually has. Can I get back to the subject of the topic. I said:[/quote]

    Abi , we have 60 hectare , of which 26 hectare is declared farming  land  (SAU )

    Please explain which words I twisted ?

    7th June 2021 at 9:37 am #552420

    Hi, I was reading up about heat pumps only last week. They are very effective in the right circumstances. However they become less effective when the outside temperature drops below about 5 degrees C, and totally ineffective below minus 6. Therefore in Britanny you need some form of backup heating for the few very cold days.

    Because the heat they provide is at relatively low temperatures you cannot effectively use a heat exchanger to power your existing radiators  and water heaters- they are particularly suited to underfloor heating, but that could be disruptive to fit.

    The conclusion is therefore that heat exchangers are good for new builds and big renovations, but are not usually a suitable solution in an existing house.

    As an aside, why do people think old houses are inefficient? Surely 600mm thick walls are pretty well insulated, and double glazing and roof/loft insulation are easy too.

    7th June 2021 at 10:24 am #552426

    [quote quote=552420]As an aside, why do people think old houses are inefficient? Surely 600mm thick walls are pretty well insulated, and double glazing and roof/loft insulation are easy too. 0[/quote]

    My house is about 110 years old with thick granite walls. Since buying the property 17 years ago I have fitted double glazing, insulted the downstairs ceilings and the attic and various other bits and bobs but the walls are not insulated as this would involve dry lining the walls and covering up the stone which is part of it’s charm and character. The walls gradually warm up during the spring and summer like a huge storage radiator and now in June my house is comfortable whilst still feeling cool in the hot summer months. As  we move into winter the walls will retain some of that heat and keep the house at a reasonable temperature normally till October at which point additional heating is required (I use a woodburner for this) There are still some draughts in the house dispite my attempts to insulate and fit draught strips to doors etc, as you stop one another pops up, it is just the nature of old buildings. For that reason I think a heat pump system would not supply my needs in winter.

    A pellet burner may be the solution as I only heat my water with my fuel boiler and that works out to approx 30 litres a month which is reasonable. The last time I turned my central heating on it consumed around 200 litres a month which is just too expensive. I think a pellet burner would be reasonable to heat my water but probably not for running my central heating so I would carry on with my wood burner backed up with a petrole heater in the autumn and spring when I don’t need the woodburner but it isn’t quite warm enough in the evenings without something to boost the temperature a couple of degrees. I think whichever system of heating you use, it is all a bit of a balancing act unless you have a new build property.

    7th June 2021 at 10:27 am #552333

    [quote quote=552324]

    I’m surprised that someone who appears to be environmentally friendly in many ways cuts down so many trees that store carbon so that it can be burned to generate CO2 that is causing the world to overheat.

    I am not surprised that someone on this forum jumps to conclusions without having the information for those conclusions .Especially someone that heats their house with oil :unsure: I don’t cut down trees . I am clearing up generations of mismanaged farmland and replanting trees that store CO2. We bought 9 Hectare of land 5 years ago , the old man had sold all the trees on it to a sawmill , he died before they cut down the trees . They came and destroyed the land with big forestry machines and removed all the oak trees ( some hundreds of years old ) leaving us with the branches and the stumps .It was a habitat for many animals . I have cleared it up , it was a mess, have dug out the stumps , it was not easy . We are replanting . The rest of our land was all ” en friche” it was left to brambles when the small farmers couldn’t make a living on it and the young farmers wern’t interested. Now it is wild pasture with flowers and many insects .WE ( not the APPMA) cleared the stream that runs through it , now it is a reserve de peche where trout are returning . You make me laugh , me ? causing the world to overheat . It is too late to stop it , I have been working here for 30 years to try to help the wild animals on this tiny piece of the earth to survive the human race. :yes: :yes: Wood is a renewable source, heat pumps are not , they need electric . Tell me Abi K , what have you done to save the wild animals from the scourge of the earth called humans ? :unsure:[/quote]

    You have a lovely spot there, is the stream classed ?

    7th June 2021 at 11:13 am #552433

    [quote quote=552398]I pay 140€ per month in electricity bills with everything included[/quote]

    Thanks for your reply, Pete. What really interests me is how much of that relates to the use of the heat pump? Is it expensive to run?

    Between 8 November 2019 and 24 November 2020 my total electric bills amounted to 333.23€, an average 0f 27.77€ per month.

    In addition, I paid a total of 2472€ for oil over the period 16 February 2009 to 10 April 2020. The last delivery of 500 litres last year was a top-up, and most if not all of that delivery is still in the tank. Even if the tank was dry it would work out at 17.40€ per month. For the benefit of those with reading difficulties, oil is used for heating water, with the central heating being used only in extreme cases. Gas for cooking works out at about 2.30€ per month. On top of that is the wood. Last year I paid 150 or 200€ for a large delivery (I think it was the lower figure), but I had free wood from other sources. If I was to say the total value came to 300€, it would work out at 25€ per month.

    Adding it all up, my average monthly spend on fuel is about 72€, but if I adjust this figure to take account of the oil remaining in my tank it will reduce accordingly. So I spend about half what you spend. On the other hand, if I was to heat the whole house throughout winter it would increase, but why heat empty rooms?

     

     

    7th June 2021 at 12:51 pm #552437

    I can’t quantify the cost of the heat pump but I had oil fired system before and I used to get through about 750 litres each year for heating and hot water if I recall and that was without any wood burning. I have a rather large place with about 120 m2 heated when required (148m2 in total) and I reckon I’m paying about the same now as I did with oil. The house is well insulated and maintained at 21.5C. I also have air conditioning and that uses a lot of electricity in the summer months. Therefore I think my overall EDF Bill is satisfactory for my personal needs.

    8th June 2021 at 10:04 am #552441

    [quote quote=552333]

    I’m surprised that someone who appears to be environmentally friendly in many ways cuts down so many trees that store carbon so that it can be burned to generate CO2 that is causing the world to overheat.

    I am not surprised that someone on this forum jumps to conclusions without having the information for those conclusions .Especially someone that heats their house with oil :unsure: I don’t cut down trees . I am clearing up generations of mismanaged farmland and replanting trees that store CO2. We bought 9 Hectare of land 5 years ago , the old man had sold all the trees on it to a sawmill , he died before they cut down the trees . They came and destroyed the land with big forestry machines and removed all the oak trees ( some hundreds of years old ) leaving us with the branches and the stumps .It was a habitat for many animals . I have cleared it up , it was a mess, have dug out the stumps , it was not easy . We are replanting . The rest of our land was all ” en friche” it was left to brambles when the small farmers couldn’t make a living on it and the young farmers wern’t interested. Now it is wild pasture with flowers and many insects .WE ( not the APPMA) cleared the stream that runs through it , now it is a reserve de peche where trout are returning . You make me laugh , me ? causing the world to overheat . It is too late to stop it , I have been working here for 30 years to try to help the wild animals on this tiny piece of the earth to survive the human race. :yes: :yes: Wood is a renewable source, heat pumps are not , they need electric . Tell me Abi K , what have you done to save the wild animals from the scourge of the earth called humans ? :unsure:

    You have a lovely spot there, is the stream classed ?[/quote]

    Yes it is rather special , it was abandoned too long and the woodlands left to go to ruin .

    The stream as such isn’t classed , it runs into the Tardoire not too far down from our property , which is classed of course.

    The Federation de Peche will be doing their annual ” peche electric ” next week . Last year there was a good increase in the brown trout population with young trout and quite a few eels

     

    8th June 2021 at 10:48 am #552497

    We had a Class A stream running through the golf course at St Junien and the rules and regs  were very strict regarding its maintenance etc. The owner built a  lake  of two hectares (for the irrigation) using the original stream. The ‘new’ stream encircled the new lake which remained of course Class A. We had to use a system whereby water always flowed through the stream at all times for the benefit of fishermen and women next to the golf course property. Weird thing was there were very few fish in the stream but loads of écrevisses.

    We were allowed to fill the lake from October to end of March after which time all water had to flow into the stream. The water police used to visit regularly, even at six in the morning to ensure water flowed into the stream, the penalties for non compliance were severe.

    8th June 2021 at 1:38 pm #552506

    [quote quote=552404]Please explain which words I twisted ?[/quote]

    [quote quote=552324]Especially someone that heats their house with oil[/quote]

    Read what I said. I don’t heat the house with oil. I close most of it down in winter.

    [quote quote=552257]The price of firewood is connected to the price of diesel/petrol  because that is what is used to produce it . … Wood is a renewable source, heat pumps are not , they need electric .[/quote]

    So using a petrol chainsaw to cut over 180 steres of fallen wood for sale plus 4 years supply for yourself in 9 hectares is eco-friendly, but using an as yet unknown amount of electricity for a heat pump isn’t.

    [quote quote=552334]I did read what you wrote . wood burner,oil burner and gas bottle[/quote]

    Using a wood burner to heat my kitchen should not be a subject of criticism for someone who depends on it for heating, and denies its environmental impact. I have explained in detail how little the oil burner is used and how much gas I use – I wonder how you cook, but that is none of my business. But to lump all three together as you have in an implied criticism is disingenuous.

    I have only replied because you asked me to. Can we now drop the subject.

     

    8th June 2021 at 2:05 pm #552510

    [quote quote=552506]Can we now drop the subject.[/quote]

    Of course we can Abi .

    I hope your day is as good as ours :yes: :yes:

    8th June 2021 at 2:13 pm #552512

    [quote quote=552497]We had a Class A stream running through the golf course at St Junien and the rules and regs were very strict regarding its maintenance etc. The owner built a lake of two hectares (for the irrigation) using the original stream. The ‘new’ stream encircled the new lake which remained of course Class A. We had to use a system whereby water always flowed through the stream at all times for the benefit of fishermen and women next to the golf course property. Weird thing was there were very few fish in the stream but loads of écrevisses. We were allowed to fill the lake from October to end of March after which time all water had to flow into the stream. The water police used to visit regularly, even at six in the morning to ensure water flowed into the stream, the penalties for non compliance were severe.[/quote]

    If the stream was classed , then they must have had a derogation to build the lake in the first place ?

    I got peed off with the local APPMA because they used to dump a couple of buckets of trout in the stream behind our mill pond and then two weeks later come ” en masse” and catch them to eat . No conversation or help with clearing and cleaning the stream , which was a complete mess. So now, no one can fish in the stream for about a kilometre because we have signed a non peche with the Federation and they make sure that everyone knows that it is a reserve. I still have a stretch to clean up but I enjoy the work and it keeps me healthy .

     

     

     

    8th June 2021 at 3:42 pm #552514

    [quote quote=552510]I hope your day is as good as ours[/quote]

    Beautiful day, thank you.

    17th July 2021 at 12:24 am #555252

    I have something to add now which may be of interest. As I mentioned before my house is not suitable for a pompe a chaleur, I have explored that avenue and it isn’t going to work. So I responded to an advert for a wood granule/pellet system and I have been accepted for a grant. I am not eligible for the maximum grant but I will get 66% of the cost. This means that to have my central heating system upgraded to a new boiler which is far more efficient than my old fuel boiler and will therefore be affordable to run  as I only use my present system to heat my hot water. I rely on a wood burner and petrole heaters at the moment during the winter.

    I have studied the figures and I have come to the conclusion that I can run the new system in the winter using the central heating as background heat for approx 4.50€ per day, a lot less in the summer. I estimate I will still need my wood burner and petrole heater but in a lessor capacity. The total cost of the new system is 18000€ of which I have to find 6000€. GASP…..Yes that is a lot of money to find but I am considering that my present boiler is 22 years old and after the end of this year I will not be able to carry out anything beyond minor repairs or replacement.

    If I carry on with my present system, at some point it is going to fail and I also think that with less demand, the cost of fuel which is already nearly 1€ per litre is only going to increase. I also have to consider that this grant is not going to be available for ever so if my system fails in a few years time I am going to have to bear the full cost of a new system.

    The banks and government are offering a zero% loan for the deposit but to be honest loan rates are so low here it really isn’t worth all the paperwork.

    What do you think?

    19th July 2021 at 9:39 pm #555487

    There has been no response to my previous posting but I will update. Today an engineer visited my property and said it was suitable for the upgrade. I have paid a deposit and I understand the new system will be installed in September. If this is of any interest to anyone else give me a like otherwise I will not bore you with any more  details.

    20th July 2021 at 7:48 am #555493

    I am interested to read what you think of your new system John P . Although I would never install a pellet burner . Why does it cost so much ?

    20th July 2021 at 8:04 am #555495

    It does seem very pricey for what it is. Does the system include a giant hopper ?

    20th July 2021 at 8:50 am #555498

    It sounds like John has done his homework but to my mind he is spending a whole wad of cash upgrading a system that he only uses for heating water, his woodburner and petrole heater doing the bulk of the winter heating.  If it was me I would dump the C.H. altogether and just have a chaffe-eau with its self-contained electric heating element.  His €4.50 a day is almost double what I pay for my total electricity usage, not just water.

    But I might have the wrong end of the stick.  :scratch:

     

    Anonymous
    20th July 2021 at 8:53 am #555499

    Ours cost under €5000 for the peller burner inc fitting but JP’s has to run a heating system with radiators and hot water. So it will cost a lot more. I would be shocked if you will get away with €5 a day in the Winter for the pellets used but as I don’t know what burner you have bought and its economy I will wait until next September to read  what you have to tell us about the costs of running it.

    20th July 2021 at 10:28 am #555503

    I saw a pellet burner on display at a local event some years ago. It was 8000€. My oil boiler some years earlier was around 2000€. There was some government assistance with the pellet burner, but I took the view that the prices were being hiked so that in effect the government money was going to the industry rather than the consumer. Call me a cynic if you will.

    18,000€ for the installation of a heating system sounds outrageous. It represents my income for 2 years. A total rip-off. The industry is grossly inflating the price so that the fat cats get fatter with money provided by the government. John P’s “contribution” of 6000€ is closer to the true cost. Installation is not the end of it. You then have to buy the pellets for ever and a day.

    At least with a heat pump you don’t have to buy fuel, and my contribution according to figures I have obtained from MaPrimeRénov is less than 1400€.

     

    Anonymous
    20th July 2021 at 10:51 am #555505

    Whatever system one chooses you have to pay for the running of it, pellets or otherwise. I must admit and based on Johns price of €18,000 it does sound very expensive, perhaps JP can tell us what he is getting for that price?

    20th July 2021 at 2:41 pm #555518

    I’ve just had a technician to see me about the heat pump. After measuring up my house and taking numerous photos, he called someone on his portable with the speaker turned on. The lady at the other end asked some questions which I answered directly. Then I mentioned payment. That’s when I got a shock. It isn’t 1392€ as shown on the forms I downloaded, which I was quite prepared to pay. It is zero. Well almost zero. 1€ as was shown in the advert. Some kind lady called Anna will pick up the tab. That’s kind of her, isn’t it.

    They’ll be here next week to install it.

    Anyone want to buy a perfectly good oil fired central heating boiler?

    Anonymous
    20th July 2021 at 4:03 pm #555522

    Friends in Spain tell me their electric bills in Summer and winter increased dramatically with heat pumps. So like you said before you will have electrical costs forever more and at higher costs than before. All heating costs money, whatever one uses. Well unless you have a forest of course and can handle chainsaws and the equipment required to cut up the logs.

    20th July 2021 at 5:21 pm #555533

    I have friends with a maison secondaire near me. When I recently told them I was considering having a heat pump installed they told me that they had one in a previous home in the UK and were very pleased with it. They said it cost very little to run.

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