pompe à chaleur 1€

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  • 4th June 2021 at 5:39 pm #552221

    I’ve just had a phone call asking if I would like to replace my present heating system with a heat pump. I said I had no money – not quite true but what little I have saved is for emergencies. He said that if I qualified it would be installed for 1€. I think I could just about manage that!

    He took my tax reference number, and confirmed that I am eligible. I will be contacted. Minutes later someone else phoned and confirmed the details. I will receive a devis in due course.

    I checked on the internet, and it would appear that the heat pump for 1€ ended at the end of last year – so see what happens. Wish I had known about it earlier.

    4th June 2021 at 6:13 pm #552222

    Now that’s a happy tale…hope it has a happy ending.

    I don’t know why I never believe in something for nothing…wouldn’t it be great if it actually happened.

    good luck.

    4th June 2021 at 7:24 pm #552227

    A devis for 1 euro?

    Looks like a free lunch to me, and you know about those don’t you………………

     

    4th June 2021 at 7:56 pm #552231

    [quote quote=552227]A devis for 1 euro? Looks like a free lunch to me, and you know about those don’t you………………[/quote]

    I’ve had a nice man come round and insulate my garage ceiling for 1€.

    4th June 2021 at 8:25 pm #552234

    [quote quote=552231]

    A devis for 1 euro? Looks like a free lunch to me, and you know about those don’t you………………

    I’ve had a nice man come round and insulate my garage ceiling for 1€.[/quote]

    Did it need insulating and what was it insulated with?  Just interested .

    4th June 2021 at 9:24 pm #552235

    Maybe read those advices carefuly :

    Arnaques: Pompe à chaleur à 1 € ou Isolation 1 euro, soyez vigilant !

    4th June 2021 at 10:19 pm #552236

    Be very warey. I have looked into this. I was offered a pump a chaleur for a very good price BUT they are only suitable for certain properties. If you have an older property with poor insulation I was told they won’t provide enough heat, I understand they are very expensive to install and maintain and you will have to pay quite a substantial amount towards the cost, although there are grants of up to 90% available, 10% of 16.000€ is 1600€, understand that you have to find that.

    I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has taken advantage of  this offer because I have fuel heating which is being phased out but I have read mixed reviews about this offer

    4th June 2021 at 10:35 pm #552237

    [quote quote=552235]Maybe read those advices carefuly :

    Arnaques Pompe à chaleur ou Isolation 1 euro, soyez vigilant.

    <iframe class=”wp-embedded-content” title=”« Arnaques Pompe à chaleur ou Isolation 1 euro, soyez vigilant. » — FRANCE ENVIRONNEMENT” src=”https://france-environnement.org/arnaques-pompe-a-chaleur-ou-isolation-1-euro-soyez-vigilant/embed/#?secret=BaxDTeW2oj&#8221; width=”600″ height=”459″ frameborder=”0″ marginwidth=”0″ marginheight=”0″ scrolling=”no” sandbox=”allow-scripts” data-secret=”BaxDTeW2oj”></iframe>

    [/quote]

    Just to warn you about the link I’ve posted, just read the advices, but don’t make any simulation on because it is also an advertising.

    4th June 2021 at 10:47 pm #552238

    I’m aware of arnaques in every aspect of life. And I know that a free lunch has to be paid for. I’ll just wait and see. But 1,600€ to have a warm house may not be a bad deal. My bedroom in winter is so cold that I keep the ice cream in it, and sleep as close to my wood burning stove in the kitchen as I can get. I only turn the central heating on when it gets well below zero to stop everything freezing up, and at the moment there are 3 radiators in place but not connected, including my bedroom. I have a friend who has his heating on all through the winter, which as we all know came back with a vengeance in ‘spring’, and his heating costs scare me.

    As John P has said, some forms of central heating are being phased out. Mine is oil, which has a guaranteed life of something like 2 years from what I have heard.

    4th June 2021 at 11:06 pm #552239

    Here is the service public web site with more info

     

    4th June 2021 at 11:07 pm #552240

    And here the search for professional who are certified. The best thing is to contact yourself a local professional that is on the list

    5th June 2021 at 6:48 am #552241

    Deboer, yes the garage did need insulating. If it doesn’t, you won’t qualify. One qualification being that there must be rooms that you heat above it. Mine was block and beam concrete. They used rockwool backed plasterboard with an R of 3. The garage ceiling must be over 15 m2 ( I don’t know why).

    Re the pompe à chaleurs, from what I can gather they provide generous heat but at not very high temperatures. This sounds counter-intuative, but your radiators in a central heating system may need to run at 60 0r even 70 c to make your room feel cosy. P à c’s often don’t give these high temperatures so the small surface area of your radiators doesn’t make your house snug. On the other hand if you have underfloor heating a p à c running at 20 odd c will make you very cosy indeed. If you want to run a P à c through your existing radiators , ask yourself – how hot do my radiators need to be to make my house a comfortable temperature ? Generous sized radiators will perform better with p à cs.

    I should add, I haven’t got a pompe à chaleur and the above is what I have gleaned from exploring the idea on the various forums where these things are discussed. It would be good to hear from those with them – Peter James I think has one – as we all need to be trying to work out what to do.

    You have to be a bit careful when there are contractors getting lots of new customers due to government handouts as they may be hasty with their advice.

    5th June 2021 at 9:27 am #552245

    Thanks for the reply Seabadger , just my inquisitive mind wondering why a garage roof would need insulation . :-)

    5th June 2021 at 9:27 am #552246

    Babeth, thanks for the links.

    Seabadger, any heating would be an improvement. I have very small radiators in a toilet and a corridor, but the others are quite large. It would be nice to hear from anyone who already has the system installed.

    I would also like to have more info about maintenance or recurring costs.

    5th June 2021 at 10:04 am #552254

    Yes, this is very true – There are many businesses being set up on the back of the Government promotions and they really aren’t what they seem. Their marketing strategies are very aggressive and even if you show only the slightest interest, they won’t let you go. I say this from personal experience.

    The thing is that the house has to be set up for the Pompe de Chaleur – not the other way round. This is why they’re good for modern houses, built with full insulation.

    It also depends on the sort of temperature you require.  Getting a PdeC to perform in an uninsulated house might well result in high electricity bills and precious little actual heat.

    Of course we’re all going to have to look to the best way to heat our houses in the future. Whichever way you look at it, heat is expensive and that’s not going to change.

    We moved a couple of years ago into a longere that is getting on for three hundred years old, a good half of which is single glazed. We soon realised that a PdeC wasn’t going to fit the bill – we even tried a demonstrator which resulted in precious little good heat and a fair sized electricity bill.

    We weren’t prepared to double glaze the rest and so we installed a high capacity poile a bois which suits the house well as most of it is open plan. During this winter, which has been particularly cold, the last thing we have suffered from is the cold. Yes, it’s used a fair amount of wood – but we have been warm.

    You could argue that in the future, the sale of wood is going to be far more regulated which may well effect a lot of local farmers selling off the back of trailers and this is something we’ll just have to live with> However, you could also argue that a huge number of people who live in the country simply won’t be able to modernise their houses so inevitably there will be some sort of compromise.

    What we do know is that there aren’t many of us, particularly as we get older, who’ll want want to spend our winters freezing.

    However it is worth thinking very carefully before you you sign anything because if you do, you’ll be held to it.

    5th June 2021 at 10:43 am #552257

    Just a note JJ , local farmers can only sell wood off the backs of trailers if people pay cash .

    I have sold a lot of firewood in my time and always accepted cash or cheque because I have declared it as revenue. It’s a bit of a contradiction , big farmers don’t bother with firewood , too much work , small farmers don’t pay income tax , so it makes no difference .

    The price of firewood is connected to the price of diesel/petrol  because that is what is used to produce it .

    Firewood will increase in price until it is worth the work and the investisment in machines . ( it is hard work )

     

    5th June 2021 at 10:53 am #552258

    [quote quote=552236]Be very warey. I have looked into this. I was offered a pump a chaleur for a very good price BUT they are only suitable for certain properties. If you have an older property with poor insulation I was told they won’t provide enough heat, I understand they are very expensive to install and maintain and you will have to pay quite a substantial amount towards the cost, although there are grants of up to 90% available, 10% of 16.000€ is 1600€, understand that you have to find that. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has taken advantage of this offer because I have fuel heating which is being phased out but I have read mixed reviews about this offer[/quote]

    My system was installed two years ago. I could have had the system installed for almost nothing had I been entitled to the various grants available. The grants, except for the EDF one are means tested so I only qualified for the 3500€ grant.

    I was also entitled to a 30% rebate via the Credit Impôt scheme on the tax form.

    All in all, well worth doing in my opinion.

    5th June 2021 at 11:53 am #552264

    In all the fifteen years we have lived in France, we have bought wood / logs. Generally around 12-15 steres a year – so it’s a fairly large order and always dried. The maximum price paid is the current one – 55Euros per stere (delivered)

    The wood is delivered in three 5 steres batches over the previous summer – this enables it to be paid for “en liquide” without anybody bothering about it too much. However a total of say 800Euros over the summer in the back pocket so to speak is a good income for a small local farmer, so whatever the economics of production, market forces do come into play even though the cost of producing and storing dry logs might not leave very much in terms of actual profit since you probably don’t cost in for your own time doing the job. And there’s a lot of trees in France.

    Pete – I know that you have always had good words about Pompe de Chaleurs” but I would imagine that your house is well insulated.

    5th June 2021 at 12:44 pm #552266

    Can anyone tell me.  If I were to take advantage of the government scheme and have a Pompe de Chaleur installed can I retain my oil fired system and wood burner, or , does the regulations insist on there removal?

    5th June 2021 at 12:54 pm #552267

    [quote quote=552264]In all the fifteen years we have lived in France, we have bought wood / logs. Generally around 12-15 steres a year – so it’s a fairly large order and always dried. The maximum price paid is the current one – 55Euros per stere (delivered) The wood is delivered in three 5 steres batches over the previous summer – this enables it to be paid for “en liquide” without anybody bothering about it too much. However a total of say 800Euros over the summer in the back pocket so to speak is a good income for a small local farmer, so whatever the economics of production, market forces do come into play even though the cost of producing and storing dry logs might not leave very much in terms of actual profit since you probably don’t cost in for your own time doing the job. And there’s a lot of trees in France. Pete – I know that you have always had good words about Pompe de Chaleurs” but I would imagine that your house is well insulated.[/quote]

     

    Yes JJ, it’s well insulated and works well here. I would never consider the option in an old property with poor insulation.

    John P was asking about the costing of a system and not the performance.

    5th June 2021 at 2:03 pm #552271

    [quote quote=552264]In all the fifteen years we have lived in France, we have bought wood / logs. Generally around 12-15 steres a year – so it’s a fairly large order and always dried. The maximum price paid is the current one – 55Euros per stere (delivered) The wood is delivered in three 5 steres batches over the previous summer – this enables it to be paid for “en liquide” without anybody bothering about it too much. However a total of say 800Euros over the summer in the back pocket so to speak is a good income for a small local farmer, so whatever the economics of production, market forces do come into play even though the cost of producing and storing dry logs might not leave very much in terms of actual profit since you probably don’t cost in for your own time doing the job. And there’s a lot of trees in France. Pete – I know that you have always had good words about Pompe de Chaleurs” but I would imagine that your house is well insulated.[/quote]

    I stopped selling firewood in 2020 , too much hard work for little profit, I will still sell to my elderly neighbours who buy a few steres .

    In 2017/208/2019 I sold 85/60/38 sterre and cut split and stacked enough wood for 4 years ahead for own own use, we heat and produce our hot water with wood.

    You say that €800 is a good income for a small farmer , then I must be a millionaire !

    As I noted , it is a waste of time selling firewood on the black , if you are a small farmer you don’t pay taxes anyway.

    I would never invest in a heat pump , I like the smell and heat from burning wood and it doesn’t need electric. . :yes: :yes:

     

    5th June 2021 at 6:53 pm #552296

    We are getting through nearly €1000 a year for firewood and we certainly can’t say we are warm in winter.  It’s a small place with only one bedroom.  Stone built and double glazed but not a lot of insulation in the roof.  I looked into getting a cheap deal for insulation but was told it was the wrong kind of roof space, etc. and although we qualified for the deal the house didn’t.  We use a 14kw woodburner with an integral fan to help throw extra heat into the room.  We only light it in late afternoon but it is still expensive.  Only the EDF bill is higher than the firewood bill.  If we ever move again it will be further south into a house with at least one south facing window for a bit of free heat.

    5th June 2021 at 8:37 pm #552297

    You,ll have to go a long way south …

    we wintered in the Hérault 5 years ago….thinking it would be warmer…..no ..we ended up buying wood at a higher price than Normandy to run an open fire….the heat going up the chimney…the Transmontana was vicious…

    live and learn….we are spoilt now…first time since we left the UK…central heating…and a woodburners for enjoying….I would miss the woodburners.

    only problem being …understanding the timer and the boiler…still haven’t cracked it,

    5th June 2021 at 8:45 pm #552298

    The Herault is similar to the Tarn, it depends where you are. Where we are is quite mild compared to the areas further east and south where the ground is higher .

    5th June 2021 at 10:13 pm #552302

    When we arrived here two and a half years ago we were taking Django for a walk through a wood that runs through part of the commune. There were a lot of fallen trees – ones that had been blown down in gales over probably five to six years. I had a good look at them – mostly Ash, trunk diameter 12-18 inches across and although nearly dried out they were not going rotten. I must admit I saw an opportunity.

    I went to see the Mairie  who said that if we could handle the job ourselves, we could have them. Luckily I have a very powerful chainsaw. The long and the short of it was that over the first lockdown we sawed up getting on for thirty steres of logs. Damned hard work and had to pay a local farmer to transport and split them – probable physical cost was around 500 Euros but if we’d costed in all the paraphernalia involved in doing the job and costed in time taken doing it as well, there wouldn’t have been a lot in it. Luckily it all fell within the three kilometre limit.

    However, nobody ever got rich running a small farm –  it’s a way of life, no matter where you are and any small bonus keeps the vision alive so 800Euros in your pocket feels a lot better than an empty one. A fair number of people in this position can draw on the odd tree when times get tight, so they just get on with it.

    6th June 2021 at 10:38 am #552322

    [quote quote=552296]We are getting through nearly €1000 a year for firewood[/quote]

    I couldn’t afford that kind of money for wood. My house is quite large, but in the winter I close most it down.

    Open stairs from my kitchen lead up to an upstairs lounge with panoramic views. In the winter the lounge becomes my bedroom. Heat from the woodburner in the kitchen rises up the stairs. It doesn’t exactly heat the lounge, but it takes the chill off it, which is all I need for a bedroom. The kitchen gets up to 20°C, sometimes a bit more, which is comfortable for me. Another way to keep warm in winter is to wear more clothes. I once knew someone who only ever wore shorts and T-shirts throughout the winter, and was buying bottled gas at an alarming rate, as well as having his woodburner blazing away. My gas bottle, which is used only for cooking, lasts the best part of a year.

    [quote quote=552271]In 2017/208/2019 I sold 85/60/38 sterre and cut split and stacked enough wood for 4 years ahead for own own use, we heat and produce our hot water with wood.[/quote]

    I’m surprised that someone who appears to be environmentally friendly in many ways cuts down so many trees that store carbon so that it can be burned to generate CO2 that is causing the world to overheat.

    I don’t have a lot of choice. My oil-fired boiler, which I would love to phase out, heats water for showers, but I rarely use it to heat the house. Similarly I would love to reduce my dependence on the woodburner, hence my interest in heat pumps and other renewable sources. The problem is that the capital expenditure that is involved for so many schemes is beyond my means.

    6th June 2021 at 11:28 am #552324

    [quote quote=552322]I’m surprised that someone who appears to be environmentally friendly in many ways cuts down so many trees that store carbon so that it can be burned to generate CO2 that is causing the world to overheat.[/quote]

    I am not surprised that someone on this forum jumps to conclusions without having the information for those conclusions .Especially someone that heats their house with oil :unsure:

    I don’t cut down trees .

    I am clearing up generations of mismanaged farmland  and replanting trees that store CO2.

    We bought 9 Hectare of land 5 years ago , the old man had sold all the trees on it to a sawmill , he died before they cut down the trees . They came and destroyed the land with big forestry machines and removed all the oak trees ( some hundreds of years old ) leaving us with the branches and the stumps .It was a habitat for many animals . I have cleared it up , it was a mess, have dug out the stumps , it was not easy . We are replanting .

    The rest of our land was all ” en friche” it was left  to brambles when the small farmers couldn’t make a living on it and the young farmers wern’t interested. Now it is wild pasture with flowers and many insects .WE ( not the APPMA) cleared the stream that runs through it , now it is a reserve de peche where trout are returning .

    You make me laugh , me ? causing the world to overheat . It is too late to stop it , I have been working here for 30 years to try to help the wild animals on this tiny piece of the earth to survive the human race. :yes: :yes:

    Wood is a renewable source, heat pumps are not , they need electric .

    Tell me Abi K , what have you done to save the wild animals from the scourge of the earth called humans ? :unsure:

     

    6th June 2021 at 11:52 am #552326

    This is exactly the conundrum Abi – The capital cost of upgrading your house to make the pump work efficiently is beyond the means of most people. The intentions may well be there but the money isn’t.

    This is the core problem. If various Governments are really serious about their objectices on carbon emissions, then they really do have to work out much more cohesive plans on how they’re going to do it instead of setting targets that most people, however well intentioned, simply cannot afford to meet.

    It’s very easy to make tighter regulations on the building of new houses, but the reality is that most of us live in old houses which can probably only be made economically carbon efficient by knocking them down and starting again.

    It’s a very strong willed person who puts their ethics on the subject above the far more immediate issue of keeping warm in winter. All the while that countries like China and India are thundering on with the production of coal to heat themselves and third world countries, from a purely personal perspective, it’s a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    6th June 2021 at 12:19 pm #552327

    OK, Deboer, I apologise. I got it wrong. But 185 sterres sold and enough left for you to burn over a period of 4 years is an awful lot from branches and stumps. They must have been big branches!

    And if you read what I said, you will find that you did the same. I jumped to conclusions, but so did you as you will see if you bother to read on.  Not only did you not consider that I may have made valuable contributions to nature, you didn’t bother to read the words in front of you. I said “I rarely use it to heat the house”, rarely being when the temperature drops to about -5°C, and then just to stop anything freezing. I think I have said that previously in this topic or elsewhere on this forum.

    I have always objected to the claim that wood is renewable. You burn it and it is gone, but it leaves a dangerous gas behind. You can replace it, but you can’t renew it. And in most cases the replacement takes years or decades to reach maturity. And how many people actively plant trees? I do. See my comments in the gardening topic on that very subject. In the past I have assisted my commune in tree planting and other environmental projects. Back in England I had land that had tree stumps all over. It wasn’t as bad as what you describe, but by the time I finished it was a pleasant meadow, with a corner that had a spring and a variety of trees and wildlife which I kept as a nature reserve.

    As for my contribution to wild life here in France, I do all I can on my hectare of land to encourage and accommodate everything from hedgehogs to squirrels, and even the humble earthworm, which I will pick up and place in a safe place when I am digging my garden. Moles are an exception to the rule. They don’t make any contribution and in fact eat the worms that are essential in maintaining our soil in good condition. I actively encourage birds by feeding them daily. My fields are full of wild flowers.

    So get off your high horse.

     

     

    6th June 2021 at 12:40 pm #552330

    We all do the best we can AbiK…thankfully we are all aware to varying degrees how we affect our earth….sadly until all nations respect the rules…we are victims of the excesses of others.

     

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