Learning French !!
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We came to France to live some years ago now…I had my school French ..but I mentally thanked the old nun who taught me!vocabulary!
every Monday morning another 20words learnt over the weekend.
words still pop into my head…I often wonder where from!
personally the way forward was talking…to my French friends.
Being corrected…happily.
sometimes I think…I,m getting away with this..they think I,m French…yeah..then a smile ” I love your accent”. Rumbled again.
Hi, me again. It is true that many courses seem to concentrate on gender and verb endings. I believe that puts a lot of people off learning right at the beginning. The learners need to be aware of these matters, but, as already said, communication is the most important thing. The grammatical details can be refined later on. Therefore I would say that the most important thing a course should do is to get the students communicating as quickly as possible.
When I first went to evening classes to learn French, before we moved here (as it didn’t occur to me and I didn’t expect that anyone would speak English, I was, after all, moving to France) I was a complete novice, no French taught at my school, I went with the attitude that I didn’t want to get bogged down in verbs and the ‘technical’ stuff, just wanted conversational French so that I could ‘get by’. I quickly learnt that it is a must to learn some of the basics of verbs etc, as without that there is no conversational French.
To help my brain absorb better that which I felt was more important I concentrated on the vous form of everything and not tu. I found ways of remembering certain nuances telling myself that what I referred to as ‘coming and going’ verbs, together with reflexive verbs used être and that sort of thing. I listened to the French people in supermarkets, heard two ladies speaking and one of them with a shrug of the shoulders say “Sais pas” it took me a while to figure out that she was shortening “Je ne sais pas” but if I hadn’t learnt it in it’s proper form I wouldn’t have known that.
I made myself buy cheese and ham at the deli counter instead of the easier pre-packed option, stood back, listened to what others asked for then had a go at asking in the same way myself, “un part de…” “une tranche de …” etc. and was quietly pleased when I got what I wanted and without an eyebrow being raised!
I think there is a need to just wade in there, not worry about getting embarrassed and gradually build in confidence.
In answer to Evelyne’s original question and to agree with what others have said, I think there is a real need in classes to encourage students to speak amongst themselves, to be able to interact, to be able to know how to pronounce and to understand, better to go over the same lesson a few times until confident with it all than to race on through lots trying to cram too much in, especially with ‘older’ students, young students’ brains are like sponges and soak up knowledge much easier than those of us with older brains already clogged up with mortgages, economies, building materials and the like!
I know exactly what you mean, Marmite. We were walking the dogs on the beach yesterday and 2 French ladies stopped and asked me what time high tide was. I said it wasn’t until much later etc. As they were walking one said to the other words to the effect of ‘What sort of accent was that?’ to which the other replied she wasn’t French, she was English.
As far as lessons go I’m completely in agreement with fruitcake in that you need to know the basic verbs etc. Past, present, future and reflexive verbs are important to give you the groundings upon which to build sentences. I did go to classes with an excellent teacher but found that there’s always someone in the class who wants to dominate things, despite the best efforts of the teacher which means that shyer pupils don’t get the chance to contribute as much.
I know people who have been going to classes for over a decade and know all the theory and grammar very well but still seem hesitant to speak with other French people and will speak English with any French people they know who can speak passable English.
Like fruitcake I prefer to listen and pick up phrases and feel my French improves much better through interaction with French speakers. I can follow and understand conversations quite well but unlike others don’t think my spoken French quite matches up as I struggle to find the right words sometimes but I do in English too!
As you say Jazzy finding words in either language is sometimes difficult! And do you do as I do, after having a conversation with a French person who seemed to understand perfectly well I get home and get a lightbulb moment thinking “Oh what did I say it like that for? I KNOW how to say that!” I still do it now, even after all these years. Mr. F. who is still unable to speak French can’t always understand why I get cross with myself because “They knew what you meant” “Yes, but I know how to say it properly and didn’t!” Very frustrating!
Before moving here I thought I had good french ,A level, I then quickly realised it was not enough to live and work here so the Pole emploi sent me on a french course and I did an OU diploma / degree along side it .This was 27 yrs ago. I joined a dog club within a year of living here and spoke all types of french with them from posh to slang ,I eventually gave lessons at the club as my training methods were very different ! It also helped me to make friends who I have to this day.I went to the Aude region this summer and coped with their accent which is vastly different from Breton or Parisian accents I am used to .I had to stop and think sometimes but by the 5 day had adjusted to it .I would say everyone learns differently and also has different goals .Mine was to work .My french daughter in law says I speak good french but I find from time to time I have to revise certain french rules and verbs ,subjunctives etc.
There’s the cost of lessons as well, I don’t know how much they are these days, a couple for example that go on a weekly basis it can work out quite expensive.
There are free lessons if you look around ,mostly in medium to large towns Quimper ,Lorient for example.Greta are linked to Pole emploi and are free.
My lessons were with UTL (Université Temps Libre) and cost €200 for the whole academic year which I thought was good value.
Quimper Acceuil used to give free ( well 15€) a year lessons ,as it was open students and au pairs of many nationalities there was no chatting in English ,even in the coffee break.There are …….. Acceuil in many medium sized towns run by volunteers ,the idea is that even if you have moved from Paris, Lille wherever you can make friends over a chat and a shared interest such as bridge,history or a craft .
Evelyne ,you are not. Jean Louis. A’s friend are you?
Sounds like there are some good local classes around that are free, or don’t cost a fortune.
Maybe we could ask Evelyne if she wants to give us some lessons .
sometimes in french classes there’s too much time/emphasis put on terminology rather than usage ie. subjunctive, passé composé etc. language evolved without these and they were put on as descriptives; they’re useful terms but for early learners, when overused, they’re confusing/a hindrance
I think possibly one thing that makes people reticent about lessons is a reluctance to be in a classroom style situation again especially if they didn’t enjoy language lessons at school or just school in general.
Agree koat about the terminology thing too.
I think you make a good point, Jazzy, about going back in to a classroom environment, some would hate it, which is a shame.
jamie its all very well you trying to order a packet of bensons in your local bar, but the chap with the correct French can order a packet of bensons anywhere in France and be understood, you with your local patois French will not. the French are not stupid, as soon as we Brits open our mouths they know we are Brits, why pretend. Learn the correct French from the start and be understood wherever you are in France
Most people I chat with think that I am belgian or canadian !! It is not so much a local patois,but moreso a collective colloquialism that I learnt to get by with and I could order anything anywhere with it way back in the learning process,though being a none smoker,bensons have never been a concern of mine
The French think the English accent when speaking French is sexy –
– though personally I would rather be taken for Belgian or Canadian.
I have heard a few people say the same thing and have always hoped it is the same for people with a welsh accent
Learning any language requires effort and determination. Total immersion helps, but in can be very stressful, especially the older one becomes. Personally, one of the techniques I found most effective when learning my first foreign language, was to put on a Sony Walkman headphone set and play the tape of the language in question whilst cycling through the countryside, and just rabbiting away trying to repeat what had been said on the tape without trying to analyze it, and I tell you what, within about 2 weeks, my command of that language really took off as a result.
– though personally I would rather be taken for Belgian or Canadian.
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