Gilets Jaunes are back this Saturday

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  • 19th November 2021 at 3:22 pm #563377

    Had a flyer put on the car at Carrefour (and every one else car) saying   “On Lache Rien” (We will not give up) asking for Gilets Jaunes to meet at Lannion rond-point du Boutil Saturday 20th Nov! 3rd anniversary

    A place to avoid perhaps?

    19th November 2021 at 4:52 pm #563378

    Thought they had given up after achieving nothing three years ago,not been seen for years.

    Anonymous
    19th November 2021 at 7:52 pm #563391

    Topcat, are you serious, do you read French newspapers, watch French TV?
    One of the biggest reason you haven’t seen them for a while has been Covid and that of course worried all of us,Gilets Jaunes are ordinary people seeking to correct social injustices.
    They did us all favours by getting the hike on Fuel prices stopped and the scrapping of the fuel tax in December 2018. They managed to get €17 billion worth of tax cuts and other fiscal incentives including tax exemptions for retirement pensions and a rise in benefits for disabled people among the key measures taken in response to the protests. Students came out as did those working in health for an increase in take home pay. Tomorrow a Nationwide movement is to not only to get the fuel prices reduced but also the rising price of fuel, gas and electricity.. All this whilst we sit in the warm, bravo les gilets jaunes.

    19th November 2021 at 8:42 pm #563401

    Hi Roger,as far as i was aware they disappeared long before Covid19,but you seem sure of your facts,it,s just that as fuel is at it,s highest price ever known,to say that they achieved anything on that front seems unlikely,but again,you seem sure of your facts.Not sure what the students and health workers gained from it all,but i am sure you can enlighten us.Let us all wait and see what they achieve this time ref-fuel,electricity and gas prices,my guess would be absolutely nothing. :yes:

    19th November 2021 at 9:06 pm #563409

    Oil price rise at the moment is due to demand and I don’t think that burning fires on roundabouts will change that .

    The oil market is based on short term profit from short term production and when the return drops below the production price , oil companies stop production . Once an oilwell is “shut in” , it takes a while to restart it , and quite a few times , it stops producing all together.

    Due to Covid and the major drop in air travel , less oil was needed so production was stopped . Now more oil is needed again and the Winter is coming , oil/gas prices will surge , no one is unhappy about this except the consumers ( read milk cows)  so be prepared for higher oil /petrol prices.

    Anonymous
    19th November 2021 at 9:09 pm #563411

    Topcat, you prove the point about the gilets jaune, since they have not been about the fuel prices have risen, they dropped when the gj’s sought a reduction and gained it, or did you not notice at the time? Oh they won’t gain anything will they! but then again, none of us will help but some will still have pops at them for trying. Read all about the gains yourself, instead of telling us “…………after achieving nothing…” and repeating it but secretly hoping no doubt their actions will help you in some way without you even stepping outside your front door.
    In my three decades plus here I have seen strike after strike and in most cases the strikes have achieved their aims, or at least most of them and the gilets jaune have carried that on…..

    19th November 2021 at 9:15 pm #563412

    Times change Roger, this time  it is not a tax increase but an oil price increase , nothing the government can do about that , unless they want to subsidise oil prices , but they have just agreed ( in Glasgow) not to do that , so get ready for higher petrol/ gas prices. :unsure:

    Anonymous
    19th November 2021 at 9:21 pm #563415

    Deboer you appear to have forgotten that the increases before had  lot to do with taxation on fuels. In the early days of Covid with fewer cars on the road, fuel prices had dropped with thanks back then to the efforts of the gj’s and the oil companies need to keep fuel at the pumps. So even with lesser demand the oil companies know they need to keep transport on the move. It’s never a surprise that fuel costs rise in winter, just as meat products tend to rise in high season when the tourists are around.

    19th November 2021 at 9:28 pm #563418

    That is exactly what I wrote Roger, before it was tax  that the government could decrease, now it is oil price , that the government cannot change , so there is no point in burning tyres ( that should be stopped anyway )

    Oil companies don’t give a pooh about consumers , just about profit  which they need to keep their shareholders happy .

    Anonymous
    19th November 2021 at 11:44 pm #563432

    Deboer: That is exactly what I wrote Roger, before it was tax that the government could decrease, now it is oil price ,

    I think you’ll find that my post was slightly behind yours, so you were posting whilst I was typing. One thing you seem to forget, no consumers, no profit, as was during Covid when prices plummeted, the oil companies put selling fuels first before shareholders but yes, shareholders being mostly pension funds etc will require a maximum return but do require consumers to buy at any cost.

    Anonymous
    20th November 2021 at 12:40 am #563436

    I have commented on previous sites to UIF that I think the French lack any structured political opposition process:  To simplify this:

    Mairie have a lot of powers = they get the flack, but have little influence

    Collections of communes in Departments (I don`t think people or Mairies like this} inevitably water down or absorb problems without much power but with bureaucratic cost

    Departments propose policy, collect and distribute money, but in the lower middle of 7 tiers of governance so who cares who they are or what they do?

    Regions, aren`t they too big and how can they make effective any dynamic/ urgent/ soon-to-be stuff that helps the 3 tiers below.

    National Assembly, well I have been following French Politics for decades, I know what they don`t do but what do they do? .

    European Parliament :yahoo:     an expensive un-necessity

    European Commission :mail: B-)   a bad thing for a forward looking individual country seeking to advance its citizens wishes.

    No wonder burning, blocking and vesting are direct citizen actions. It must be like the 1780s……..

    20th November 2021 at 6:09 am #563438

    No stepaul..it’s not at alllike the 1780s.

    I ve been in France for. Third of my life now….I love it…I don’t criticize the Uk …because I no longer participate in their politics..,you who vote in the Uk are responsible for your government.

    I don’t vote in France or Europe now …thanks to Brexit. You and your fellow brexiteers disenfranchised me.

    Thé french are doing very well Thankyou….maybe that’s why you maintain a holiday home here?to escape the madness.

     

     

    20th November 2021 at 10:30 am #563441

    According to OuestFrance they’re meeting up at 4pm to relive past glories, then they’re having a nosh up at 7pm.

    https://www.ouest-france.fr/bretagne/lannion-22300/lannion-les-gilets-jaunes-sur-le-rond-point-pour-leur-anniversaire-d86c6b2c-4928-11ec-a0b7-64a183ad6699

    They tried a comeback in October but didn’t get much support https://www.ouest-france.fr/bretagne/lannion-22300/lannion-les-gilets-jaunes-de-nouveau-sur-les-ronds-points-ed737ec4-2e99-11ec-b483-98263717580c

    I supported the movement at first but it lost its way and got taken over by the casseurs. And you had to smile when an organisation that supports liberty and freedom takes it upon itself to hold people up, decide who it lets through and insists on everybody having a gilet jaune on your dashboard or else it won’t let you go where you want. Arguably it achieved something, but the disruption and damage it caused was out of all proportion. Certainly it damaged Macron which depending on how you feel about Macron is either a good thing or a bad thing, and whether being weakened at that early stage turned out a good thing or a bad thing for the rest of his term in office, well entire books could be written about that and probably will be.

    ” the French lack any structured political opposition process” I don’t understand this, what is “a structured political opposition process”? Does it mean that one party systematically opposes everything that another party proposes, whether they agree with it or not? In a mature government, all that is needed is debate; I don’t see any great merit in opposition for the sake of it. And I’m baffled why you then go on to talk about the various levels of devolution. as if each level has a say on everything. They don’t, it’s structured so that each level of administration has clearly defined competences. It’s logical because there are certain issues that can appropriately be decided on/resolved at municipality level, such as rules on bonfires and managing the commune’s parks and flower displays; there are other issues that arguably are more appropriately dealt with at CdC level, such as public services where you don’t necessarily want to duplicate every provision in every municipality (media centres, telework centres etc); there are major road and infrastructure projects that need to be dealt with at departmental level; right up to national government and then EU bodies that deal with things that require cooperation between the member states and/or represent members’ interests in worldwide, and obviously each country needs an elected representative to have a voice in EU policy hence the EU parliament.

    Of course there are problems and tensions, it’s inevitable, you will never please all of the people all of the time. When you say a country should “advance its citizens’ wishes” you make it sound so simple because you’re conveniently overlooking the fact that its citizens want all kinds of contradictory things, just like EU member states want contradictory things and different communes within CdeCs want different things and different departments and regions want different things. So there has to be compromise at every level and there will always be disagreements at every interface. But on the whole it chugs along despite the disagreements and the compromises, or perhaps even because of them because it’s good to keep questioning things.

     

     

     

    20th November 2021 at 11:49 am #563449

    Roger,we will have to agree to disagree on the known facts about what the GJ,s actually achieved a few years ago,as pointed out,the gains(if any) were far outweighed by the damage caused to local roads in the couple of months that they were around, and then the weekly damage to property in Paris which seemed to go on for a few more months,also,disrupting the people that they were supposed to be helping is always questionable and would explain the recent lack of support.The Insulate Britain protest group reminded me of the GJ movement(minus the violence).

    20th November 2021 at 12:41 pm #563456

    Very well put  , Eat My Hat .

    Roger , the oil is in the ground , it will be bought sooner or later and there are always consumers. ( you remember the hype about ” end of oil ” )

    It’s like a tree that a wood merchant buys , but doesn’t cut it down immediatly , it just becomes worth more money.

    The oil price is not changed by the gilets jaunes, it is supply and demand  and that is why there is a price hike at the moment .

     

    20th November 2021 at 1:01 pm #563457

    The farmers have started their campaigns here again too.  I don’t condone acts of vandalism but they do have my sympathy.

     

    https://www.letelegramme.fr/finistere/saint-pol-de-leon/a-saint-pol-de-leon-des-agriculteurs-en-colere-deversent-des-pneus-sur-les-parkings-du-super-u-et-du-leclerc-en-images-17-11-2021-12868930.php

    20th November 2021 at 1:41 pm #563462

    The winter months are always protest season, people get bored and fed up with the long dark days and evenings, there’s too much time to think of all the things that are wrong and they need a bit of excitement in their lives. All the old chestnuts will get dusted off again no doubt. There’s nothing like joining in a good protest to make you feel better, then it gets into the newspapers and everyone perks up because they’ve got something to talk about and argue over. Farmers’ livelihoods, pensions, taxes, unfair burdens on this or that sector. Unfortunately it might get bitterer than usual this year because the problems are realer than they have been for a while. But it generally starts fizzling out when the clocks go forward (will they next year?) and the days get longer and come Easter all being well people will be starting to think about their summer jollies, and hopefully the protest will all be forgotten again until next October. That’s the way it goes :wacko:

    20th November 2021 at 2:56 pm #563466

    For the record, crude oil prices are not high at all, this years average is 67 usd a barrel todays price is just under 80 usd barrel 1979 prices hit 123 usd barrel and in 2008 they reached 126 usd barrel, by the way its easy to shut a well in and open it up again.

    Anonymous
    20th November 2021 at 4:23 pm #563468

    Deboer: The oil price is not changed by the gilets jaunes, it is supply and demand and that is why there is a price hike at the moment .
    Oh ye of little reading…so you are telling me that last time the original and “REAL gilets jaune”  not to be confused as others have been with the thugs that use greves to offer violence which the original GJ’s never did and still don’t, didn’t cause the government to reduce prices and state the ensuing fuel taxation would not be enforced? The GJ’s did a good job. Sorry whatever anyone says about GJ’s and indeed the greves here, I back fully, we are all the people, we have right and to get those rights we lose we have to fight back. Those “we” vote for are there for the people, not to go against the people but to ensure the people are treated correctly. Not one person on here would deny anything the GJ’s gain, or indeed what others  striking can get put right but my oh my, after thirty plus years here, how many times have I read people write that the Brits should act like the French people and march against the government on occasion. Yes the UK had the poll tax riots, which Thatcher foolishly believed was the right thing, stupid woman that she was but look at today with Brexit and the way Johnson and his front benchers have lied, corrupted and cheated the people and the people do what…yep sod all. Vive la France!

    20th November 2021 at 4:50 pm #563470

    Nothing in Caen except yellow notices on roundabouts….

    20th November 2021 at 5:47 pm #563471

    Allwaysinit
    20th November 2021 at 2:56 pm #563466
    For the record, crude oil prices are not high at all, this years average is 67 usd a barrel todays price is just under 80 usd barrel 1979 prices hit 123 usd barrel and in 2008 they reached 126 usd barrel, by the way its easy to shut a well in and open it up again.

    Reply

    I beg to differ Allwaysinit , which position did you have in the oilfield  before you retired ? :-)

    The oilprice (Brent) was $62 in August and $83 in November , quite a steep increase I would say .

    quoting a high of  $123 /barrel 42 years ago ? I didn’t say the oil price was high, it is the fast increase in price that is fuelling the problem.

    When oil prices go down, it is not passed onto the consumer , but it is when they go up , strange eh ?

    Anonymous
    21st November 2021 at 1:39 am #563476

    OK

    I will not comment again on the hierarchy of  7 steps governance in from commune to EU Commission. It sucks but I don`t have a proper view as I only relate to my commune and department as a taxpayer, not a voter .

    So why am I wrong about the lack of structured opposition process in French politics??

    Marie, above,  posts the very wrong, disruptive and pretty futile dumping of  OOPS dare I say it hard/expensive to dispose of stuff, eg Big Tyres  & landfill things that end up being taken away at public expense, by farmers and other discontents in supermarket car parks etc, where the rest of the people need to feel safe!? Who and at what level in French politics or even policing! is on this?

     

    21st November 2021 at 4:12 am #563477

    I am not oine for long winded replies however in this case I will make a exception, sorry to those of you that get bored.

    Deboer

    shows what you know, I am not retired and won’t be for several years, as for asking what my position in the oilfield is, what the hell has it to do with you what I do ??? and who says I was in the oilfield ???

    You quote brent prices not average world prices what did you do google the highest average and quote that?, a rise from 62 to 83 over 3 months is not unusual, the price one pays at the pump is not totally reflective of crude oil.

    Deboer claimed,

    The oil market is based on short term profit from short term production and when the return drops below the production price , oil companies stop production . Once an oilwell is “shut in” , it takes a while to restart it , and quite a few times , it stops producing all together.

    The above is Bullsxxt market and production is based on a 10 year look ahead the reason oil production is halted or slowed is when there is a glut and storage facilities are full, production costs for oil vary Widley and have very little to do with sales costs, quite often oil and gas for that matter is sold well below production costs for short term continuity however  there is no doubt that oil and gas companies make huge profits but that’s by volume from a small margin same as many other companies,  and as for the claim its takes a while to re-start a well and sometimes they stop producing! well that’s just rubbish.

    There is no doubt the main beneficiary of the cost of diesel and petrol once it reaches the pumps in most European countries the US and the UK is the government a little over  40% of what you pay at the pump is made up of fuel duty and VAT

    Oil prices fluctuate all the time always have always will, crude prices are governed to a certain extent by the oil organizations such as OPEC, future speculation and investment are the big drivers in crude prices,   the price at the moment is not high nor has it been an unusually fast increase its just been unusually stagnant over last couple years due to low demand practically zero investment and very low speculation due mainly to Covid, the price of crude on the day  is only an indication and does not reflect the pump price as the sale price was agreed weeks if not months previously, some retailers for example make less than 1% on fuel sales the average is 3%.

    No matter how you frame it the only ones that have the highest guaranteed profit with no risk are the governments through taxation

    Deboer you also claimed

    The oil price is not changed by the gilets jaunes,

    Your right that the Gilets Jaunes do not change the price of oil but what they do,  is fight the government tax that is chucked onto that cost of oil, like Roger I am full supporter of the Gilets Jaunes and will stand with them again.

     

    21st November 2021 at 7:41 pm #563503

    A reply to your post, I am not bored.

    shows what you know, I am not retired and won’t be for several years, as for asking what my position in the oilfield is, what the hell has it to do with you what I do ??? and who says I was in the oilfield ???

    Nothing to do with me at all , just interested where you get your experience from . I just assumed that you worked or had worked in the oilfield by the way you posted .

    The above is Bullsxxt market and production is based on a 10 year look ahead the reason oil production is halted or slowed is when there is a glut and storage facilities are full,

    Not in my experience , the American way of working is : invest and expect short time profit , if not then remove investment or invest in something else.

    and as for the claim its takes a while to re-start a well and sometimes they stop producing! well that’s just rubbish.

    Then you must work in a different oilfield than I did , quite often it took a lot of intervention to restart production  after a long period of shut in, depending of course what type of well it was.

    Deboer you also claimed

    The oil price is not changed by the gilets jaunes,

    At least one thing that you agree with . :yes:

    Brent crude price on $, is the price that is quoted worldwide .

    I hope you are having a good shift , wherever you are . I had 35 years in the Industry at the ” sharp end ” .

    4 am is the worst time on nights . :rose:

     

    22nd November 2021 at 10:35 am #563523

    @Stepaul

    So why am I wrong about the lack of structured opposition process in French politics??

    I don’t know because as I said above, I don’t know what you mean by a “structured opposition process. Would you care to explain? What process is it that you feel is missing?

    22nd November 2021 at 10:35 am #563524

    @Stepaul

    So why am I wrong about the lack of structured opposition process in French politics??

    I don’t know because as I said above, I don’t know what you mean by a “structured opposition process”. Would you care to explain? What process is it that you feel is missing?

    22nd November 2021 at 11:50 am #563528

    Steppaul ,looking at Boris johnson…I fail to see how anyone can criticize French politics.

    I,m English with a lifetime of UK voting….I have the right to criticize the Tories..

    You are a holiday home owner…paying Taxes….to own a house here and profit from the services….

    You have absolutely no say in how France governs France.

    presumably you bought here because you like France?I certainly don’t believe you would invest in a country you didn’t trust or like.

    ps this is a site for people who like France…hadn’t you noticed?

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