Drowned migrants

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  • 25th November 2021 at 6:22 pm #563743

    Oops. Yes, Bobby it should have been ‘no safe legal routes.

    25th November 2021 at 6:27 pm #563745

    France actually pays more than the UK to those awaiting their asylum application to be processed.

    I bet you’ll never see any mention of that in the Daily Mail…

    25th November 2021 at 6:38 pm #563746

    Bobby don’t tell me my opinions are bigoted or that I have been persuaded to believe one way or another. I form my opinions on what I see and hear across a wide spectrum of media. What gives you the right to tell me what to believe? You and I will never agree on this subject so lets agree to disagree, we have been here before.

    Anonymous
    25th November 2021 at 8:00 pm #563747

    John P said
    25TH NOVEMBER 2021 AT 6:38 PM #563746
    I see and hear across a wide spectrum of media.

    No problem, John. But I suspect your wide spectrum of media is mainly right wing UK press. Have you heard of “Confirmation Bias”?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

    25th November 2021 at 8:17 pm #563749

    JohnP – 86% of refugees will settle in countries near to their own. I.e to first safe country they reach.

    You seem to think that all of them want to head to the UK. Those that do want to because they already have ties in the UK or speak English well, due to our colonial past. As I’ve said before France takes in more refugees than the UK. Have you read the link I posted from the Red Cross exploding common refugee myths?

    If you don’t want to even consider the actual facts involved what other conclusion is there to made apart from that your opinions are founded on bigoted misinformation?

    Some of the current migrants crossing the channel are desperate Afghans who helped the brits and Americans and who have been promised safe haven in the UK after the withdrawal of troops which seems to have been all talk and no action. A disgusting betrayal if you want my opinion.

    Anonymous
    25th November 2021 at 8:54 pm #563750

    Of those who successfully make it across the Channel, the majority will probably neither seek asylum nor whatever financial assistance might be on offer. Instead, they’ll try to travel to where they think family/tribal members are and make a ‘living’ working illegally, at whatever they can find, for little money. They will, however, be safer than they would have been had they remained in their countries of origin.

    25th November 2021 at 9:08 pm #563751

    How many migrants have you housed in your house?

    25th November 2021 at 9:10 pm #563753

    anyone?

    25th November 2021 at 9:11 pm #563754

    What’s that got to do with being sympathetic to their plight?

    Can you not be sympathetic to their plight unless you offer them housing? What sort of skewed thinking is that?

    25th November 2021 at 9:14 pm #563755

    ever been homeless?

    25th November 2021 at 9:15 pm #563756

    How many migrants have you housed in your house?

    One, he became my husband, and until now I am very happy, and would do it again.

    25th November 2021 at 9:18 pm #563757

    well done babeth!                  anyone else?

    25th November 2021 at 9:23 pm #563759

    And if no-one else says ‘yes’ Ed, what is your point?

    25th November 2021 at 9:24 pm #563760

    just curious thats all

    25th November 2021 at 9:26 pm #563761

    i have housed a few over the years :mail:

    25th November 2021 at 9:54 pm #563762

    Jackie surely the facts are that in most cases no one knows where these people come from. Yes, some are genuine refugees and deserve help, but you don’t know and I don’t know and the border force don’t know who they are, where they come from, whether they have criminal records or whether they have links to terrorist groups etc, etc.

    Taking in every migrant who crosses the channel is a security risk of unknown proportions. The government have a duty to protect the safety of British citizens, help genuine asylum cases and protect the borders. It is failing to do any of these. The last two recent terrorist attacks were carried out by failed asylum seekers who like most had not been deported. The whole system is broken and being run by a useless, worthless, self serving government who has totally and absolutely failed in every single level of it’s responsibility.

    26th November 2021 at 7:33 am #563763

    I don’t know, John, but your argumentation is somewhat problematic.

    The mere fact that I cannot predict the future behavior of all potential immigrants doesn’t give me the right to scoff at my moral duty to help those in danger whose miserable situation I actively brought about (like in Afghanistan). If I applied the same rigorousness to safety standards in any country, I would have to lock up the entire population as most certainly future murderers are among them.

    Investigating a person’s background while they are drowning or being shot at is cynical. We need to make sure we know who enters the country and what their probable intentions are. As we have yet failed to eradicate future crime by identifying criminals at birth, we will never be able to completely eliminate the threat of terrorist attacks by predicting people’s actions without any margin of error.

    Standard legal immigration procedure would ease the situation by clearly increasing the visibility of immigrants, but the European governments have yet failed to agree on such procedures.

    Anonymous
    26th November 2021 at 8:59 am #563764

    ED said
    25TH NOVEMBER 2021 AT 9:08 PM #563751
    How many migrants have you housed in your house?

    Just the one. And they are in touch with a wider community (in both UK and France) of similar refugees who have settled into French and UK society.

    As Jackie asked what is your point?

    Apart from giving us a possible greater insight and understanding into their plight, and prejudice in general, what does it prove?

    And I’d happily accept more refugees and offer hospitality to those in need given the opportunity. But the opportunity to do something on such a personal level is simply not available. So your question is irrelevant.

    Indeed if your question was, “has anyone had the opportunity to house any refugees?” it would be more pertinent.

    Anonymous
    26th November 2021 at 9:18 am #563768

    John P said
    25TH NOVEMBER 2021 AT 9:54 PM #563762
    Jackie surely the facts are that in most cases no one knows where these people come from. Yes, some are genuine refugees and deserve help, but you don’t know and I don’t know and the border force don’t know who they are, where they come from, whether they have criminal records or whether they have links to terrorist groups etc, etc.

     

    They all have a right to have their applications properly and speedily processed. That is an international moral duty. The UK system is broken, and is probably the worst and slowest of European countries.

     

    John P said

    Taking in every migrant who crosses the channel is a security risk of unknown proportions. The government have a duty to protect the safety of British citizens, help genuine asylum cases and protect the borders. It is failing to do any of these. The last two recent terrorist attacks were carried out by failed asylum seekers who like most had not been deported. The whole system is broken and being run by a useless, worthless, self serving government who has totally and absolutely failed in every single level of it’s responsibility.

    It is an international moral duty to take in and properly and speedily process every single application.

    Some prejudged social media warriors claiming that they are economic migrants or potential terrorists does not remove that responsibility.

    When UK takes so long to process applications and meanwhile treats those applicants so poorly, then the failed asylum seekers are released from detention, their only means of support is totally withdrawn, and they are left homeless to wander the streets, possibly for many years without any repatriation arrangements, it’s not surprising that the victims of such inhumane treatment are feeling vexatious against the perpetrators of their dilemma.

    The system results in penniless refugees wandering the streets. Add in a little mental instability (PTSD exacerbated by the failed system) and it’s an obvious and foreseeable scenario.

    26th November 2021 at 9:50 am #563770

    Bobby, I said we will never agree and I asked you to agree to disagree. I was answering Jackie with my last post but you just can’t leave it can you?

    So I am withdrawing from this post because I am fed up with my and everyone else’s opinions that don’t match yours being attacked by you.

    26th November 2021 at 10:14 am #563771

    Surely everyone should be able to make their own argument without having it dissected paragraph by paragraph.

    We are not talking face to face…

    We  all have different experiences in life and we are entitled to our opinions.

    Respect …does not mean agreeing…it should mean exactly that…respect of others opinions.

    Boris Johnson is not winning respect because he spent his previous life ridiculing politicians ,why should anyone believe he has changed?

    Would I house a homeless immigrant…whilst we lived in the UK we did exactly that.

    Would I do it now …or be happy if my kids did? No ,I would fear for their safety.

    Sadly the world has changed…too many dangers.

     

    Anonymous
    26th November 2021 at 10:30 am #563773

    John P said
    26TH NOVEMBER 2021 AT 9:50 AM #563770
    Bobby, I said we will never agree and I asked you to agree to disagree. I was answering Jackie with my last post but you just can’t leave it can you?

    It’s a public forum, John. If you want a private discussion with individuals, a public forum is not the right place for it.

    John P said

    So I am withdrawing from this post because I am fed up with my and everyone else’s opinions that don’t match yours being attacked by you.

    Because we disagree, it does not restrict my right to respond to your comments.

    I’m sorry you feel that you must withdraw from the discussion, but if you make public assertions, you must expect and accept that they will be challenged, and some, many, might disagree with you. That is the nature and function of a public forum.

    Anonymous
    26th November 2021 at 10:45 am #563775

    Marmite said
    26TH NOVEMBER 2021 AT 10:14 AM #563771
    Surely everyone should be able to make their own argument without having it dissected paragraph by paragraph.

    We are not talking face to face…

    Exactly, and because we are using print in a public forum as the media for our discussion it gives us the opportunity to discuss each point in detail, forensically even.

    Marmite said

    We  all have different experiences in life and we are entitled to our opinions.

    Respect …does not mean agreeing…it should mean exactly that…respect of others opinions.

    Of course, and no-ones opinion is any more valid than another’s, unless someone’s opinion is shown to be based on rumour, propaganda and spin. Then their opinion is misguided, but they’re still entitled to hold that opinion if they so wish. No-one can deny them that right, and no-one is denying them that right.

    It is not disrespectful to demonstrate that someone’s opinion is not based on facts or evidence. It might feel like it  for those who’s opinion is proven to be invalid. That isn’t my problem.

    But similarly respect does not mean accepting someone’s opinion is based on facts or evidence, without challenging that opinion. If it is based on facts or evidence, then that will become obvious. If it is not, that too will become obvious during the discussion.

    To accept opinions without such challenge, facts or evidence would be disingenuous.

    Such disingenuousness would be disrespectful and it would not lead to greater understanding.

    26th November 2021 at 11:51 am #563776

    If your usual response is supposed to be anything other than your usual « dissing » of anyone else’s opinion…then you succeeded.

    enough said from me..

    I actually waited to comment to see how you reacted to the opinions of others…you didn’t disappoint me.

    26th November 2021 at 2:38 pm #563780

    All Bobby does is point out the flaws in others arguments. I don’t see what’s disrespectful about that….

    If your argument comes across as bigoted then prepare to be labelled a bigot. We all label each other, brexiteer, leftie etc…

    26th November 2021 at 4:35 pm #563786

    Bobby picks peoples postings apart and tries to trash them if they don’t agree with his opinion. That is high-handed and arrogant. It is very disrespectful to ‘label’ people, ie, biggot, racist, homophobic or any other phobic. Who are you to judge? by whose standards do you judge someone?

    You cannot have a discussion with someone who trashes your opinions and labels you. That behaviour soon descends into an argument and then a slanging match which is not what I come here for.

    Some comments here are very left wing and some very right. There is nothing wrong with having opinions of either but to have a polite meaningful discussion one needs to respect the other and that is not happening so that is why I decided to withdraw from this thread.

    26th November 2021 at 5:11 pm #563788

    I think you will find Jackie that it’s the UK who are supposed to pay France 54 million and not the other way round. By all reports they have not paid a penny yet and still expect the French to do all their work for them.

    Far more asylum seekers remain in countries such as Germany and France than ever go to the UK. That is never mentioned by the Tory press who like the populace to think that the UK is the land of milk and honey.

    The reason that those who wish to get to the UK have to brave the channel in dinghies is because as with most things over there the systems are broken. Processing asylum seekers is just another government department thats as inefficient as the rest.

    The fat bimbos latest attempt to demonize “our close friends in Europe” (sic) appears to have backfired on him. Like many I think his days are numbered.

    26th November 2021 at 6:15 pm #563789

    Sorry if it wasn’t clear, John but it was part of my scenario where if  the situation was reversed i.e refugees going from UK to France etc….

    26th November 2021 at 8:09 pm #563794

    I believe we all feel saddened by what we see…if there were a simple solution I think it would be used..

     

    26th November 2021 at 8:22 pm #563795

    Mariam Nouri Hamadameen, a 21-year-old Kurdish woman from Iraq, is the first person to be named of the 27 that died after their boat sank trying to cross the Channel from France to the UK.

    She was hoping to reunite with her fiance who already lives in the UK.

    Woman

    When the UK left the EU they also left the Dublin agreement whereby the families of a refugee are entitled to join them in the EU country where they have settled. I’m not sure if fiancés would have been included but cruel or what?

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